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Peter and Mona Trafford

Interviewed on 19.11.2009

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[TRACK 1]

VARIOUS CHILDREN:

What's your name?

MONA TRAFFORD:

Mona Trafford.

PETER TRAFFORD:

And Peter.

What are your ages?

PT:

Seventy-one.

MT:

I were born in 1931. Guess how old I am.

..........oh I've gotyou there!

PT:

Thirty-six [laughing]

MT:

Seventy-eight.

Where do you live?

MT:

5 Calder Grove,Mytholmroyd.

What's changedabout Mytholmroyd?

What's changed? Allthe banks have gone, a lot of the shops have gone

PT:

Bit of a ghost town intit?

What was your familylike and what did you have to do then?

PT:

My family? Well I'mone of six. I've four brothers and a sister..I lived on a farm andI had to work. When I used to come home from school I'd to getchanged and get stuck in to some farm work – hay time, milking whenI was old enough, milking cows by hand....generally....helping out onthe farm you know.

MT:

And I...I'm an onlychild and I lived with my mum and dad up High Street in HebdenBridge, and it isn't there now. It got pulled down. It's on theother end of...Market Street as you going...what bridge were it..upBridge Lanes yes

PT:

Grass banking

Oh yes...

Do you still havefriends you know now that you knew from your family?

MT:

Friends?

Yes.

PT:

Well yes...yes...we'veone that's moved to Australia but...we're still friends.

Did you like it athome?

PT:

At home? Oh yeah,yeah...we knew nothing different...we'd go to like it[chuckling]...we'd no electricity, no hot water

MT:

No toilet, only a tublavatory

PT:

Bit primitive...

How many jobs didyou have?

MT:

I just worked in thesewing shop...and then been a home help, oh and I've been a cook ina pub.

PT:

I've had eleven jobs[ laughing]...I flit from job to job, but my last one was withCalderdale Council gardening.

What was your schoollike and teachers?

PT:

Colden School, do youknow that? It were a nice little school, good dinners. MrsO'Sullivan was the cook, a big Irish woman. She made some lovelydinners. Miss Stubbs....Mrs Featherstone were the headmistress....thefirst one that I knew

Did you ever like...goanywhere at Christmas or for holidays?

PT:

No.

What did you do forChristmas?

PT:

What did we do...we wasat home, much the same as we do now, but....we didn't get a lot ofexpensive presents, we used to hang stockings up when we were yourage you know, you'd have a big bottle of pop and an apple,something to fill the stocking up and some chocolate maybe...not alot of

Not like toys

No, no.

Did you do anyhobbies?

PT:

Hobbies....things wereseasonal. There was a marble season and then a conker season, whipand top, I remember having a whip and top and games, but hobbies...noI didn't collect stamps or anything like that, no.

How many familymembers did you say you had?

PT:

Relatives?

Yes.

MT:

Quite a few I think

PT:

Yeah...uncles andaunts.....and we had some relatives live nearby you know..........

Did you have anyvalues?

Any?

Values.......arevalues precious to you?

TONY WRIGHT:

What type of values,like when you were younger, were your values – what were they andwere they a bit different then from today?

MT:

I suppose you'd topass your eleven plus.

PT:

Well I didn't...no,there wasn't eleven plus was there

MT:

Yeah

PT:

Was there?

MT:

Oh no, it werebeginning of when they...split the...what do they call it...CalderHigh, the comprehensive.

PT:

No they never hadeleven plus when I were a kid

Did you have to goto church on a Sunday:

PT and MT:

Yes

Did you like, didyou dress up?

PT:

Yes, Sunday morning Iused to walk down to Mytholm church, you know Mytholm church?

Yeah

And if we ticked andwent playing in the wood and got home with dirty hands, we'd to goback in the afternoon.

MT:

Well it was Sundayschool in the afternoon weren't it?

PT:

Yeah, church int'morning.

MT:

We went to Sundayschool and then you went into church, and half way through theservice you were let out.

What was the mostexciting thing that happened when you were little?

When the war ended.

PT:

Well I don't rememberit. I never knew the war so I never heard a thing. The mostexciting thing for me was when we got electricity and you couldswitch a light on, because we'd been on paraffin lamps and candles.

Did you do sport?

Sport?

MT:

Yes. I played netball.

PT:

Aye we'd football andcricket at school you know.

What was your schooluniform like?

MT:

There wasn't one.

PT:

Well I went to CalderHigh School and it were a blazer and grey flannels...cos we'dalways worn clogs up to coming down to Mytholmroyd. You know whatclogs are don't you?

What is the mostimportant day of the year?

MT:

Oh...that's a reallygood question in't it?

PT:

The first of spring.

MT:

Well yes........

PT:

After the winter

Did you do anythingfor your birthdays or did you just like....sort of have a party?

MT:

No I don't..no youdidn't do a right lot because there weren't much money about andyou didn't get any presents

[school bell ringing]

PT:

Not a fire?

No it's the end ofplay

PT:

What was the question?

Did you do anythingfor birthdays?

PT:

Birthdays....a bit of aspecial tea maybe you know, hard-boiled egg sandwiches or somespecial treat you know.

Did your relativessee you or did you ever go somewhere for your birthday?

PT:

No I don't remembergoing anywhere.....I had a special aunt who used to send me half acrown and a postal order, that's twelve and a half pence.

Did you ever goabroad on holidays?

MT:

No

PT:

No

PT:

We never went onholiday...when we were your age. We got a day at Blackpool when we'dfinished hay making, that was it.

Did you go tobeaches?

MT:

Yes – we went toBlackpool.

Which school did yougo to?

PT:

I went to five – fivedifferent schools. I started at Mytholm and then I moved up toColden, came down to Central Street which...is that...

MT:

You went there when youwere thirteen weren't it?

PT:

And then I went toRiverside which was Calder High Lower School, and then I came down toMytholmroyd, Calder High here.

MT:

And I just went toCentral Street.

Are you glad thingshave changed?

PT:

Am I glad what'schanged?

Are you glad thingshave changed?

MT:

Well we're better offfinancially than we was.

PT:

I think generally,yes...but the country's in a state in't it? Yes I think we'rebetter off.

Would you like toadd anything else?

MT:

I thought you wereasking questions [laughing]. You've gone through them have you?

PT:

You haven't asked allthose questions have you?

Yes.

Have you?

MT:

And how do you likeScout Road School?

It's lovely, yeah.

MT:

It's very nice in'tit? Modern and.......

We've had some newbuilding..

Yes we've been in thelift. Have you been in the lift?

No

It's for grown-ups[laughing]

TW:

Well what I'mgoing to do now is...I'm going to ask a few questions myself,basically following up on some questions the children have asked, andif you want to add other questions then go right ahead and join inonce we've finished these. There are two things really – foreach of you. One is...I'll start with you Peter, is about you....yousaid you were brought up a farm.....and I mean what farm was that andwhere was it?

PT:

Scammerton Farm,Blackshaw Head. Do you know it?

I don't really,no.

Oh I'll tell you howto recognise it...it's just erected one of these wind turbineswithout planning permission and the council won't let him use it.

I know where youmean.

On your left as you'regoing along

Along the road there

Yeah, yeah, that'swhere I was......well...from being two years old I was there up togetting married, apart from going in t'forces

Did your parents ownthat farm?

Well it was LordSavile's.

And were you tenantsthen?

Me dad was a tenant,yeah.

And what kind offarming was there?

Dairy and poultry, hekept about fourteen milk cows...wholesale milk, you know...two orthree hundred hens

Was your milkwomanMrs Clegg?

[chuckling] Well we hadour own milk

MT:

[chuckling] Yeah weknew Mrs Clegg

PT:

But we knew Mrs Cleggyeah, yeah......

VAROUS CHILDREN:

What type of animalsdid you have....like how many animals did you have?

PT:

Twelve or fourteen cowsand he used to...he kept a bull....and a cow dog.

MT:

I thought you had adonkey.

PT:

Well we did, we didhave a donkey, and a horse, a cart horse. We did have a donkey atone time but the horse kicked it and broke its leg, and we'd tohave it put down.

Did you everslaughter animals, like...did your dad ever slaughter animals?

Poultry yeah, pulledtheir necks [made 'croaking' sound]. You'd to be careful youdidn't pull the head off, and then you pluck them you see...takethe guts out... then for eating.

So you had cows,horses

One horse

One horse, cows

A bull, and a dog

Our grandma usedto...my dad used to have to stick his hand in the hole...

Mmm...better to do itwhile it's still warm

She got it...she gotit in a cage.. and had to wring its...

MT:

Wring its' what? Neck?

PT:

Yeah...oh we used tokeep rabbits for eating

MT:

Well that would be ahobby wouldn't it?

PT:

Well I suppose itwere...aye, I once had a guinea pig as well, yeah.

Did you get attachedto any of the animals?

.....[chuckling] Isuppose you do don't you? Meat would be rationed in those dayswhen we were keeping rabbits. We kept 'em to eat, youknow.....because rationing – you don't remember rationing...

What was yourfavourite thing to do on the farm?

.......Knock off![laughing]...finishing time!

TW:

Are you trying tosay that you didn't like farm work?

No not really, no –it was forced

ONE OF THE CHILDREN:

Did you fish? Gofishing?

No, no I never wentfishing.

MT:

That's funny, becausewe had a farm when we got married...now then...he didn't likefarming, but...we had pigs

TW:

Where was that?

PT:

Just a bit further onthe road......

MT:

Cally Hall........there'sfour cottages there now

PT:

It's on the righthand side as you leave.........Scammerton there

MT:

There's a block ofhouses

PT:

The third block, thethird block of buildings

VARIOUS CHILDREN:

Did you have pigs onthe farm when you were young or did you just have cows, a bull,chickens and...did you have sheep?

No, no, me dad didn'thave pigs or sheep, we had pigs after we were married.

Did you have a goat?

No, no.........we'vesome photographs at home haven't we, I'll show 'em ya.

TW:

Have you gotphotographs of the farm?

Little pigs and....

MT:

When Paul were a baby

Would you be ableto...us to borrow them?

MT:

Yes, sure, in fact Iknow where they are at the moment because I got them out for someoneelse.

VARIOUS CHILDREN:

Did you.......hasthe winters and summers changed? Is it hotter...is it hotter in thesummer, because when we were doing weather.....you let me borrow abook and there was....there was like five foot snow and men walkingin shorts in the pictures.

MT:

[laughing] Yes, thewinters were bad.

PT:

That must have been apostman...walking in shorts?

Yes.

MT:

Not in the snow,surely?

No, the snow waseither side of him, it had been swept.

PT:

The winter of 1947 –Colden School, I think it was closed for five or six weeks.

Were the summershotter?

MT:

They weren't as wetwere they?

PT:

No I don't think theywere........

MT:

You got t'hay indidn't yer?

PT:

Yeah but we were haymaking you see and it would drag on for five or...everything done byhand, no machinery; forks and rakes and an old horse, no baling, itwere all loose – it was donkey work.........that means hard work.

Did you....did youever get flooded? Like, did the town ever flood because on one of thepictures Burnley Road was flooded.

Oh yeah, yeah...

MT:

Yes, Hebden Bridge gotflooded, yes.

And there were busesin the water, double decker buses.

PT:

Yeah you've seen thepictures haven't you?

MT:

There were someshops......you know, they went down the river, those timber buildings

PT:

The butcher's shop inMytholmroyd weren't it?

MT:

And there were anelectrician's

PT:

Floated away like ahouseboat

MT:

Further on tha......youknow, the...travel agent's

[school bell]

What was the mostexciting bits of..........your life?

MT:

What, as a child?

No, as an adult.

I suppose it weregetting married really.

Did you have acelebration

Yes.

Did you have a partyafter?

No.

PT:

We had a receptionafter we got married.

MT:

Yes, she said did youhave a party.

PT:

Well that was a partyweren't it?

MT:

Well it were areception and then we went....we went to Ilkley in a bubble car.

A bubble car?

It only holds twopeople.

PT:

We toured Scotland init

MT:

[laughing] Yes

PT:

It were a 200cc highcentre, do you remember them?

TW:

I do remember them,yes.

BMW air-cooled enginet'door opened at the front and t'steering wheel went out

That's right

VAROUS CHILDREN:

Was it like shapedlike a bubble?

Yes, it had threewheels – two wheels at the front and one at the back.

Where did you firstmeet?

Bridge Lanes, HebdenBridge. I were sat having fish and chips.....I'd been out for adrink or been to the pictures with a friend and....I saw Mona walkingup the road.....and I says 'by golly that's a fine looking girl[all laughing] and I chased her up the road...I followed her up theroad, frightened her to death and asked her for a night out...and wewent to the picture didn't we?

MT:

Yeah.

Did you the cinemasthen?

PT:

Yes, Hebden Bridge.

When you were anadult, not when you were a child?

MT:

Yes, when you were achild, yes. Didn't you go....to the morning do sometimes?....OnSaturday mornings?

PT:

No, Saturday afternoon.

MT:

Saturday afternoon

PT:

Matinees, yes.

When you were achild?

Yes.....we usedto.......you mustn't do this.......don't try this.........we usedto go...I think it was a shilling to get in

MT:

I don't think so.

PT:

Weren't it?

MT:

No, it were aboutsixpence, thre'pence half price.

PT:

I think it was ashilling but you're a bit older than me.

MT:

Oh right [chuckling]

PT:

There was a littletobacconist's shop down Bridge Lanes, he used to sell a few loosecigarettes in a paper bag, you know....a penny each maybe, and wewere silly, and smoked.....we got rid of them before we went home.

Did you stop....like,when you were an adult?

Many times. It'staken me a long time to stop...I gave over for twelve years didn'tI, then started again, but now it's...it'll be eight years thisChristmas since I stopped smoking...and take my word for it, don'tstart....difficult to give up.

If you were poorly,would it be bad or.....was it different from now?

MT:

They didn't have thesurgeries like they do now. We all had individual doctors. Therewas Doctor Clegg and...Doctor Henderson...Doctor [Dowdall]....Doctor Dearden, and they were all in different areas.

PT:

When I was sick, oncewhen I was a child, Doctor Clegg came up, and he had a chauffeur. Hehad a Hillman Minx car, a black car with a red roof funnily enough,and he had a chauffeur who came to visit me when I was in bed,poorly.

Did he give you anymedicine?

Well, he left aprescription and somebody had to go down Hebden Bridge to pick it upat the chemist.

Did you havechemists?

Yes.

MT:

Oh, though the doctorsdid dispense medicines

PT:

Yeah.

Did they haveanaesthetics?

MT:

Well yes.

To put you to sleep?

Yes.

PT:

My mother was once inDoctor Clegg's on Market Street, just as you get over the bridge,he had a little surgery there. There's a balcony over the river now; that was his surgery.

TW:

Just on the left?

Yeah, and he had atrapdoor...he did his dispensing downstairs, and my mother fell downthat didn't she?

VARIOUS CHILDREN:

Did she break anybones or was it just a bad fall?

No I don't think shedid, just the shock, shook up.

Did you break anybones before?

I've never had abroken bone, touch wood.

MT:

Yes I have.

Which one was it?

Wrist.

Were the teachersdifferent from now? Were they stricter?

[MT and PT laughing]

PT:

Well yes, you'd get abit of, you know...cane if you were caught, but the thing was not toget caught

Did they do it onyour knuckles like that?

No, flat hand, and ifyou pulled it away you got an extra one, you'd to hold your handthere and shut your eyes.

Did you ever getlike thrown a rubber or a whiteboard rubber? Did you have...

MT:

Blackboards.

Did you haveblackboards and you wrote with chalk

PT:

Chalk.

Have you ever beenpicked to have the cane?

No, I were crafty[laughing]...I once....I knew a chap who were a metalwork teacher, MrHinds, he put this lad's head in the vice....he didn't tighten itof course, but he put it there, you know, threatened him [laughing]

What typeof.....classes did you do? Did you do like history, literacy, maths

Yes.

Did you do woodworkand metalwork?

And I did domesticscience, cookery. I made a shepherd's pie and what else.....I madesomething else......I don't know, I made a shepherd's pie

MT:

And you know, theteachers only taught one subject. You moved around in school withsenior doing music

Did you do sewing?

Yes.

Did you do likehousework?

No – oh at home?

Yes.

Not much.

Did you clean?

No not much.

Were your parentsdifferent to the teachers?

Well yes, because youwere part of your parents weren't you? But the teachers weresomeone to look up to...you know, because they had an important jobhadn't they?

And educated

Yeah.

Did you go on anyschool trips?

No

PT:

Well yes, I once wentto Chester Zoo, and I was leaning over the bear pit with mesandwiches and I dropped them [all laughed] I did! Big concretepit...and then at lunch time we all had a whip round and they gaveme...

MT:

A sandwich

PT:

Yeah, I dropped them inthe bear pit

Did the bear eatthem?

PT:

Yeah!

What kind ofsandwich?

PT:

Oh, I don't know..

MT:

They'll be an egg.

Did you ever havemeat in your sandwiches or was it just like egg

MT:

I'm afraid it wasrationing, there wasn't much meat. We did have swimming lessons,we went to Shade baths at Todmorden on a Todmorden bus.

PT:

Is it still Shade bathsat Todmorden school?

TW:

I think they'restill there but they're not

Not used

They're not usedbecause they have the new swimming pool now in the park.

MT:

But weren't theyadvanced in their ideas, to have the swimming pool in....well,thirties and forties?

Yes.

VARIOUS CHILDREN:

What was yourfavourite animal?

Oh I didn't have anypets, but I always wanted a dog but my mum and dad wouldn't let me.

PT:

We had a budgie

MT:

Oh yeah we had a budgie

PT:

Called it Peter

My dad had a budgie,and he had five, the yellow one, used to, and you'd open yourmouth, if you'd been eating a biscuit it would come in and peck allthe crispy bits out1

A tooth pick! [alllaughed]

So, did you have abudgie in your childhood or did you have it when you were together?

MT:

No, no we've neverhad a budgie, no we had two or three but me dad were interested inbirds.

You lived on a farm,so you had a lot of animals but they weren't really a pet, but yousaid you had a guinea pig

PT:

Yes, a black guinea pig

Did you ever likeplay with your guinea pig if you were bored like?

Yes.....I'd have itout and nurse it, yeah, as a pet.

MT:

Is she prompting yer?

Grace used to have aguinea pig, no a hamster or a guinea pig?

PT:

A hamster, yeah.

MT:

That's the ones thatrun round a ring aren't they?

Yeah. Did you havea cat?

PT:

Yes, several cats.

Because of the miceon the farm?

Yeah, yeah. Mice andyou can get rats as well.

Oh yeah, our catcomes into your house

MT:

Yes it went upstairs aswell.

I know! Once, ourlittle kitten, who we had to have put down, Mathew, he didn't knowwhat a bath was, so when the bath was full, he jumped into the bath,and then we heard this loud bang and everybody came rushing upstairsto see what

And we saw Mathew,all shivering

PT:

I caught a mouse, I hada jam jar with a sixpence underneath, you see the mouse went in,knocked the sixpence, it were very finely balanced, and then the jarwent flat down and the mouse was in the jar upside down. I got it....Igot it off on to a book or something, took it upstairs....put it inthe bath, went and got a cat, put the cat in and the cat jumped out![all laughed] It didn't know what to do with it!

MT:

I think it died didn'tit? Oh I met Peter's brother on the bus and said 'there's amouse in our bath, can you get it out Jim?' and when we got thereit was dead, it had been there all day.

VARIOUS CHILDREN:

Did you have fish? Did you have goldfish?

PT:

Our Paul had somegoldfish didn't he?

MT:

But that's not you.

What people used tosay, I heard this off my grandma, you used catch like mice, you usedto make a little pen out of like, out of wire and you'd put themice in and keep it as a pet. Oh yeah, once Duncan, he caughta mouse and he went up and he showed me mum the mouse and she said'aaagh! Get that away from me!' and she was really scared of it.

MT:

They take it as a giftdon't they, when they catch something, like birds

And they say 'look,I've caught

MT:

Yes, aren't I clever?

Yeah but they never– our cat never eats them, he only plays with them

Does your cat eat them?

PT:

Dunc well fed, hedoesn't want to eat mice does he?

My cat had a birdonce.

Ooh yeah, our catgot a bird once as well, and we wrapped it up in newspaper and then Idon't know what we did with it

Did you have toiletpaper when you were little? [children laughing]

PT:

Yes, it was called theRadio Times! [all laughing] Me mother used to take the pins out, cutit up into quarters, page, make a hole with the scissors, a bit ofstring, and hang it up on a nail in the wooden toilet, and that wasour toilet paper.

Did you have like atoilet with....like was it just like a potty, or was it actually

It was a wooden boardthat you sat on with a hole in and a big bucket underneath.

And then you used toput bucket

Was it for compost?

MT:

Yes, funnily enough.

PT:

Me dad used to put iton, you know on....the muck midden where all the cow muck was....he'ddig a hole and then empty this bucket into it, and cover it up andthen it went out onto the land at muck spreading time, spring time,winter time.

MT:

Do they know what muckspreading is?

PT:

Course they do.

Do they spreadmuck? Do you like get shovels and spread it all over your farmyard?

A fork, you used to doit with a fork.

Did you have atractor?

Later on, later on,but....

Never when you wereyoung.

Not when I was at home,no....I'd left.....well I was at home but I'd left school andgone to work.

Were yourclothes...did you like make them yourself or did you buy them?

PT:

I don't think...did alot of knitting, me mother used to knit socks, me grandmother – megrandmother lived with us

MT:

It were hand-me-downsweren't it?

PT:

Yeah.....I had an elderbrother and I used to get his you see.

My grandmother knitsstuff for us

Pullovers, socks,gloves, balaclavas....you know the helmet for winter time

Yeah.

Did they havefairgrounds when you were little?

MT:

Yes...yes.

In some rides nowyou can win a fish. Did you get like, you had to hook a duck and geta fish or something like that.

PT:

I know what you mean,yeah. Yeah, the fair used to come – it used to come where thetelephone exchange, a street in Hebden Bridge

Did you get a sweetfor half a penny?

MT:

Oh no you'd get morethan that wouldn't yer? You'd get a bar of chocolate for aha'penny.

What's anha'penny?

PT:

Half of a penny.

Half a penny!

MT:

But that isn't yourcurrency now is it?

Twenty-five p [25p] now.

I read 'Beano'and they used to be like one p [1d} and now it costs one pound

Do they?

PT:

Beano – we used toget the Beano and Dandy

Our dad has stacksof Beanos and I've read them all

MT:

Have you?

PT:

Desperate Dan, Biffothe Bear, Dennis the Menace, Echo the Ostrich

Oh that was thefirst one, Minnie Minx, Bash Street Kids

The most cheap onewas three p [3p] and the most expensive one was seven p [7p] –that's the range

He collects old comicsdoes he? He'll have saved them from

Yeah

MT:

But you see there's abig difference in age gap in't there so they'd be a lot cheaper

PT:

I don't know whatthey were – three ha'pence, tuppence maybe, I don't know.

What kind of gamesdid you play?

MT:

We played cards.

Did you playhopscotch?

Oh yes, hopscotch.

PT:

We used to play a lotof hide and seek....we had a game where you kicked a can, you had acircle on the floor and you put an old baked bean tin or something,kicked it as far as you could, and then everybody ran away and hid,and you'd fetch the can back and count up to a hundred and then goand look for 'em. And we'd a lot of places to hide

Like a different wayof playing hide and seek?

Yeah...bows and arrows,catapults.....all sorts

Did you makelike...did you ever make like wooden....toys?

MT:

What do you mean? Likecrafting?

You know, likecarving wood to make a toy, like a horse or a duck or something.

Well I had some madefor me, but my uncle made 'em.

What was yourfavourite toy?

Oh me doll.....and theycalled it Peter [children laughing]

PT:

What as well as yourbudgie?

MT:

Yes, and t'little boydown the street, it was celluloid, you know celluloid, it's....

PT:

Plastic

MT:

it in't like plasticreally, and he pinched it's nose, and it wouldn't come out again.

Why did you call thedoll Peter?

Yes it was a boy, hehad a romper suit on.

Did you ever have achina face doll, cos if you had an all china doll then you'd bereally

No I don't think itwere china, I think it were pot.

TW:

Was this when youlived on High Street?

MT:

Yeah.

What was it like atHigh Street then?

It was a different mixof people and there were some evacuees as well, and I could go fromthe bottom house and say how many lived in that, you know, sixhouses.

PT:

They won't know whatevacuees – do you know what evacuees are?

VARIOUS CHILDREN:

You know rationpacks, did they have like a tin for your tea, your lunch and yourbreakfast, and did they have....chewing gum and cigarettes andmatches

MT:

You could getcigarettes out of a machine on the station, and bars of chocolate.

On ration packs,what type of food did you have? What type of things did you have? Was it like a big amount of food or was it just like a tin for eachmeal?

Well no, we didn'thave tins.

PT:

You'd so many ouncesof sugar, butter, cheese

MT:

Fat, meat, tea

PT:

Yeah, and it wasn'tmuch, you'd to make it last...you know per person, everybody had aration book, children had a ration book.

When you were inschool, did you have to carry around like gas masks?

Yes, yes.

In boxes?

Yes, but we never usedthem.

You know thatcigarette thing where you could get chocolate bars when you werechildren, did they have like a picture on the front of them?

MT:

Yes – five boys...andthere were five little boys on this front...

Now on cigarettes,you're not allowed to sell cigarettes unless they have a picture ofwhat they do, like cos on one picture there's a person standinglike that, and like their face half eaten, it shows you what it doesinside.

Don't smoke.

Have you ever beenan evacuee?

No, no. They evacuatedpeople from Bradford at the beginning of the war...and then they allwent back because nothing happened, and then they came fromLondon...and Jersey.

Did you have to hideor were you like just staying in your house hoping the bomb wouldn'tget you?

Bombs never came thisway, apart from the planes going over to Manchester.

PT:

The nearest one wasHalifax weren't it?

MT:

Oh yes, there were somepeople killed there.

Was there violencein Hebden Bridge and Mytholmroyd? Was it still called Hebden Bridgeand Mytholmroyd and Halifax and Todmorden?

PT:

Yes

MT:

But they did make itinto Hebden Royd at one time.

PT:

But they were separateweren't they?

MT:

Oh yes.

PT:

Mytholmroyd had its owncouncil and Hebden Bridge had, and then they amalgamated didn'tthey?

MT:

Yeah.

PT:

Hebden Royd Council.

Did you know anyonewho went to war?

MT:

Yes....your uncle, mycousin....and the ladies went as well...oh I had a cousin who went inthe ATS.

PT:

We know a lady that wasin the Land Army, she lives in Hebden Bridge.

You know sport –did you play football? Was it like, did you have to go to a footballclub or were you just playing football

In a field – put thecoats down for goalposts.

That's what we doon the field.

Did you play – didyou play on the streets because there wouldn't be any cars around?

MT:

Yes.

PT:

Well I didn't, yousee cos we had fields, we'd fields.

That's what theboys do on the field, they put their coats down

MT:

So nothing's changedhas it?

Not really.

Did you do anysports but netball and football?

Cricket did you say?

No I didn't, I justplayed netball.

Did you do golf?

Golf? No, no – thatwere too posh.

TW:

What was it like inthe sewing shops? Which ones did you work at?

I worked at Dewhirst's,and we made overalls. It was bluette, not flannelette trousers likethey made at Astin's.

And were they justfor the regular people or were they for a particular company?

Well orders came in andyou....made them and...but sometimes you did specials because me dadwas a painter and decorator, and I used to make his overalls and hisjackets, because he ordered them from where I worked.

How much did you getpaid?

My first week's wagewas one pound and sixpence.

And when was that?

1945, and then....itwas piece work.

Were you in theunion?

Yes.

PT:

Garment Makers.

MT:

Yes, Tailors andGarment Makers.

How long did you doit for?

I worked in the sewingshop until I got married in 1962.

VARIOUS CHILDREN:

What was the fastesttransport to get somewhere?

On a bus. We hadn'ta car.

A train would it be,or...

Well it weren't oftenwe went on a train. If we went on holiday we went on a coach.

Did...how often didyou go on holiday?

Once a year.

Did you have fights?

I didn't.

PT:

We didn't go toSingapore either. [laughing]

We went to threedifferent countries on holiday, we went to Singapore, Malaysia andIndonesia.

I've been toIndonesia but recently.

TW:

When you live upBlackshaw/Colden way and as part of the church, did you ever go downto the praying hole down Colden Valley?

Just recently, but notwhen it were....I walked up there....a couple of months ago.

You didn't goon...because on May Day they used to have a service there.

MT:

Yes, yeah – don'tthey have it now?

I believe they stilldo, but I was wondering if you'd ever been on them.

MT:

No I haven't, no. You see, people went to church and chapel didn't they and they weremuch more religious than they are now. Well there wasn't anythingelse to do was there?

PT:

When weleft....Mytholm...when we started going to Blackshaw Head MethodistChapel Sunday School you know, social evenings, concerts....

VARIOUS CHILDREN:

Were there any liketheatres there...were there theatres

Blackshaw Head?[laughing] No

MT:

We used to go to thepantomime on a coach, but it was all organised.

When was the firsttime you saw a telly, a television?

PT:

Oh we had a television– believe it or not we had a television for the Coronation, for theQueen. A black and white television from Dugdales in Hebden Bridge.

MT:

And we never had atelevision until...did we live in Heptonstall.....

Did you ever liveanywhere than around Hebden Bridge and Mytholmroyd, or did you livelike....you lived up in the moors

On the moors!

PT:

That's what my frienddown London says – 'what do you do up there at night?'[laughing] He thinks we're.... No, no, no....say that again –Eleanor in't it?

MT:

No it's Rachel

PT:

Rachel, I allus get itwrong. What was the question again? Did you ever

Did you ever liveanywhere else than Mytholmroyd and Hebden Bridge?

We've lived inHeptonstall

MT:

Yeah but that were whenwe were married weren't it?

PT:

Yeah

MT:

They wanted to knowwhat you did as a child.

PT:

Oh no, no, I was upBlackshaw Head up to getting married.

Did you ever liveanywhere in else then when you were married?

MT:

On TrinityStreet

PT:

Yeah, and StubbingHolme in Hebden Bridge, and then we went up Blackshaw Head for tenyears, then we lived in Heptonstall for four years, we sold the farmbut we hadn't a house so we got a council house, before we boughtthe house next door to you.

Were there any popstars when you were around?

MT:

Of course therewas

PT:

Cliff Richard's olderthan me! [all laughing]

Who's CliffRichard?

MT:

Haven't you heard ofCliff Richard? Oh dear!

PT:

Cliff Richard...andthere were Pat Boon

MT:

Gracie Fields

PT:

There were a few....whowere that that sand 'Bluebirds Over'?

MT:

Oh Vera Lynn

PT:

Vera Lynn [laughing]

Was there TheBeatles?

Pardon?

The Beatles?

MT:

Oh The Beatles weren'tgoing when we were children.

PT:

Oh no, no

Was Queen around?

Pardon?

Was Queen around?

MT:

The Queen – no, itwas a King.

PT:

No she means the popgroup.

MT:

Oh sorry! [alllaughing] No, no, they weren't around. I mean they'd be ancientnow wouldn't they, if they were around when we were children.

How old were youwhen TVs started coming into colour?

Oh it weren't untilwe were married were it, we had a black and white one didn't we? There weren't colour televisions

PT:

When our two childrenwere small, we didn't have a television till.....until 19.....

MT:

Paul would be eleven ortwelve, yes...so about 1972.

PT:

Cos they used to say itdamaged their eyes you so, staring at t'television screen

MT:

I've seen you twostaring at 'television screen.

You know the blackand white, was it fuzzy as well, because my dad, he had....I think hehad like....half an hour of a kid's programme in the morning orsomething like that. There wouldn't be a lot and that was when hewas in his ....

Yeah but your dad's alot younger than us

PT:

I mean it was fuzzy

Was it fuzzy like,really fuzzy

No...I think we'dgood reception at Blackshaw Head. You know it were....we thought itwas a good picture anyway.

Was there everylike, children's films, like cos there would have been just....howlong were the children's films, or were there children's films?

MT:

There were ShirleyTemple, she was a child star.....you haven't heard of her eitherhave you

No

Shirley Temple......

PT:

I remember Andy Pandybeing on – you know Andy Pandy don't you?

Oh Andy Pandy with..

Muffin the Mule...withAnnette Mills

Was thereTeletubbies?

No, but the Teletubbieswere on yesterday afternoon on...

MT:

Paul O'Grady Show

Oh yeah I saw them!

PT:

Did you?

Yeah

And there was....twolittle girls...

MT:

Oh yes, there were twolittle girls

And they weredancing a bit

And Jack Dee wasn'tit...on Paul O'Grady.

PT:

I'll tell you who meand Mona liked a lot.....The Flintstones

Oh, The Flintstonesare really good!

Were they TheWombles?

MT:

No, no

My dad loves TheWombles.

What was like thefirst...Winnie The Pooh or Tweenies, when did they actually come in?

That would be....AnnetteMills with....she were about the first weren't she? Kiddiesprogramme

PT:

And er....what wasthat.....teddy bear.....

MT:

Oh....Harry Corbett?

PT:

Yeah...what was hecalled

MT:

Sooty

PT:

Sooty....Sooty andSweep

Sooty!

My granddad used towatch that

Satuday afternoon

Have you ever heardof Frank Worthington?

FrankWorthington?

MT:

He was a footballerwasn't he?

Yes

PT:

Is that your granddad? Who did he play for?

I think he playedfor England.

MT:

Yeah....he wasn't agoal keeper was he?

Er no

No

He was always drawnlike Sooty on a piece of paper and that...

PT:

And is he...is he stillalive

Yeah

Where does he live?

Well he lives....Ithink...can't remember....somewhere near Rochdale

MT:

Oh yes

Did you have PeterRabbit...in like books, not the telly?

No, no we didn't havethem sort of books.

Did you have books?

Yes, of course we hadbooks

PT:

Treasure Island

[incomp – alltalking]

TW:

Don't talk at once– take turns...carry on

Yes I leant them it...youbrought it back. It was a children's Treasure Island book

Oh yeah

I bought it at a carboot sale.

MT:

Are you sure they hadcar boot sales?

PT:

It was when you wasaway...our little car boot sale.....she's imprisoned me! [alllaughing]

Anything more?

What otherentertainments did you have apart from the pantomimes and maybe alittle bit of TV?

Riding bikes...

MT:

Swinging on railings

PT:

Me first bike I had,had solid tyres

What do you meansolid?

You didn't need apump to pump it up, it were permanently hard....

Did you have......parks?

MT:

Yes.

Like just a swingand a slide and a roundabout?

Yes, yes.....and thenthey opened the memorial gardens when....oh I can't remember whatyear it were...I'd happen have left school then.

Did you have....werethere still the Olympics on then?

PT:

Oh yes.

MT:

Well there was theOlympics but I don't remember it

Well did you like,if you had a TV, would you watch the Olympics on TV?

I don't think itwould be filmed would it?

PT:

Well it would befilmed, but it

But it wasn't onthe TV

I don't know...thereis old films of the Olympics isn't there?

MT:

Oh yes.....

TW:

Were there any sortof unusual people or like characters about...can you remember any ofthem?

MT:

Yeah, there were abloke called Druffened Fred....he were permanently drunk [laughing]and there was...

PT:

Knock 'Em Back Annie,she were a bit of a.....and do you know of the Cider Queens inHeptonstall....did you ever hear of the Cider Queens?

No, tell us.

One of them was from awealthy family, and this friend...companion of hers, they paid her toget her away you see, and she came living in Swan Fold inHeptonstall, and they used to go in the cemetery...

MT:

Drinking cider.

PT:

On a nice summer'safternoon, they'd be sat on t'edge of a bridge you know with abottle of cider [laughing], but they weren't local people, theywere from away weren't they?

MT:

Yeah. There were abloke lived up Heptonstall Road and they called Sammy Pie. He had apie shop, and he used to go round the pubs of night with two basketson his arm selling pies. By the time I think he'd finished, hewere drunk as well [laughing]

PT:

His grandson goesdrinking in the Working Mens' Club here, Stephen Holroyd, doyou know him?

I don't, no.

VARIOUS CHILDREN:

What did you thinkof the first telephone?

MT:

Ooh we never had atelephone. We had to go up to the telephone box if you wanted tomake a call, and then it were generally only for the doctor wasn'tit?

PT:

Put two pennies in.....

MT:

And if you got through,you pressed button A

PT:

And then the lady atthe other end would say 'number please' and you'd say 'HebdenBridge bla bla bla bla' whatever number you wanted wasn't it? And then when you heard the voice, you pressed button B.....or was itbutton A? Button A

MT:

Button A because buttonB you got your money back if you – if there were no-one there.

PT:

Press button A and thetuppence used to drop into the box, you'd lost it then, and thenyou'd make your call and if you couldn't get through, if youpressed button B you got your money back.

Did you likebuild...cos my mum said she used to find like...a wood seat thing abit like a skateboard but with wood here and then some wheels

Yeah, pram wheels, pramwheels and yeah

MT:

And sledges

When we were intown, there was this girl who said her mum had this telephone and itwas the size of a brick, and it was about this big and she used tohave to carry it around

PT:

Yeah that was an earlymobile

And she got it free

MT:

Did she?

Yeah she got it freeand it was about the size of this .....

PT:

And the old radios thatwe had, we used to call 'em wirelesses....big thing with a dial onand a light, it had a big battery, a dry battery, and then it hada....an accumulator with acid in.....do you remember those? And weused to get Radio Luxembourg......

MT:

And you used to have totake your accumulator to be recharged didn't you?

Did you haverecords...the flat disc things? A record player?

No, no...no.

TW:

I think we'regonna have to call a halt there cos we're just about an hour now.

PT:

Right. Well it'sbeen very interesting

MT:

Yeah, nice to meet youfour girls – you are Grace?

Yes.

Mia

Mia.

And you know us.

Yes, well I weren'tincluding you.

PT:

I know your names butI....I forget which is Eleanor and which is Rachel

Rachel'sthe one with the dark hair

MT:

Yeah I keep telling him

And she's also mybest friend

PT:

Oh is it?...Right then

TW:

Do you think thatthis kind of work is important that, it's important to remember thepast and...and for young people to...you know, get engaged with whatused to be?

MT:

Yes, yes.

PT:

Oh yes, I like to...

MT:

Go back in the past.

PT:

Yeah, I like, you know– local history and...see...I've books at home. I've a book athome, I don't know whether the school got on, they did one atMillennium, leather-bound book with the author's signature in –Colin Spencer

Colin Spencer didone

MT:

Yeah that's it

And then FrankWoolidge did one with...at the Millennium...'A Century of Change'I think it was called

PT:

Yes it were the Spencerone that I got, yeah.

So do you think it'simportant for future generations to

MT:

Well they've got toknow the past haven't they?

Yes, that's true Ithink. Well

PT:

Aye, it's been veryinteresting, yeah. Because things...Hebden Bridge, it's justtotally different in't it? It was right industrial weren't it? Ready-made clothing, engineering shops, dyeworks

MT:

Chickens

PT:

Well, chickens were inMytholmroyd, yeah.

MRS PARRY:

Yeah, cos like whereElphaborough, not Elphaborough

MT:

Where the CommunityCentre is ...

The Community Centreis now, when I came, when we moved in '82, and that was allmills then, that was TS Trousers, Redman's, that was in there whenI moved here in '82 so that was all mills at the bottom of theRound

PT:

F & H Sutcliffe

MRS PARRY:

The Catholic church,that was cottages ready for...and the library was going to be onthere, they were going to build a new library on there

TW:

Do you think thischange has been good or bad, or a bit of both?

MT:

Well you've got toprogress haven't you? And go with the times really.

MRS PARRY:

I think there's a lotof jobs been lost haven't there?

MT:

Oh yes

MRS PARRY:

It's all office jobsnow, t'manufacturing's gone hasn't it ..

MT:

Cos they went abroaddidn't they?

PT:

They used to come –hundreds of women sometimes in a morning

MT:

Yeah, they bussed themin

PT:

There was Pickles'sengineers at Mytholm, Ormerod's

MRS PARRY:

What was the one wherethe doctor's is now – you know where the new doctor's is now

PT:

Oh that was Astin's

MRS PARRY:

That was a huge workswhen we came here

MT:

That were a sewing shop

PT:

Astin Brothers

MRS PARRY:

Engineering, it wasengineering

PT:

Oh, Fred Brown's

MRS PARRY:

Sort of right acrossthe back to the Post Office

PT:

Broadbent's

MRS PARRY:

That was allengineering when we moved in the eighties.

MT:

It got that things weretoo dear weren't they and they went for cheaper things and wentabroad...oh there were Moderna, made blankets...they went out withduvets didn't they

OTHER PERSON:

Fire, it went up...

MT:

Yes I went to the fire. The lady next door came in, she says 'there's a fire at Modernaand have we to go?' Yeah, I remember that, yeah.

MRS PARRY:

You know where the newbuildings are, that was a huge five-six storey mill weren't it, itwas huge the old mill that burnt down.

MT:

Yeah, yeah but it

MRS PARRY:

The only placemanufacturing is - do they still make the blankets at the bottom ofthe road? I don't even know whether that's still going

PT:

Calder Weaving?

MRS PARRY:

Yeah

PT:

Dennis Clayton, yeah,it's still going

MRS PARRY:

They did the Whitneyblanket

PT:

You see it moderniseddidn't he? He got some Japanese looms in didn't he?

MT:

I think that were whyModerna went out because everything were old fashioned, lots ofdust......

MRS PARRY:

But it makes melaugh...that about Cliff Richard [all laughing]

MT:

Do you think....

MRS PARRY:

What generation are wewhen they don't know Cliff Richard

MT:

You feel as thoughyou're in the Stone Age or somewhere don't you?

MRS PARRY:

He said 'when youwere a little girl Mrs Parry, did they have cars?' Man went to themoon you know and...they just think you're so old...

[END OF TRACK ONE]

About Us

Wild Rose Heritage and Arts is a community group which takes it's name from the area in which we are located - the valley ("den") of the wild rose ("Heb") -  Hebden Bridge which is in Calderdale, West Yorkshire.

Get in touch

Pennine Heritage Ltd.
The Birchcliffe Centre
Hebden Bridge
HX7 8DG

Phone: 01422 844450
Contact Us